You're coercing someone into doing something with their body that they wouldn't have done otherwise. But, as Candice Bernd reported for Truthout -- and others have reported -- when private armed guards commit acts of violence like shooting people, those acts are often not reported, let alone investigated. And I think that Vikki and I wrote "Prison by Any Other Name" to provide a resource for people to understand that we must get off that treadmill. And Vikki and Maya will be talking about these things, and bringing those things to light in what they learned about through their research and their interviews and their, you know, thinking about these issues. And we say "approximately" because there is actually no organization or agency or government entity that keeps statistics on this, so it's basically like pulling from, you know, this state has this many, this jurisdiction has this many.

I think we all need to be skilling up. So I think we have to recognize probation as a harsh and punitive and violent system in and of itself, and we need to stop turning to it as the obvious replacement for putting people behind bars. And what ended up happening was he was put in confinement, and he was -- again, you know, imprisoned -- basically imprisoned with all of these restrictions on what he was allowed to do.

And she was in solitary confinement for nine days. So her electronic monitoring extended indefinitely. But 15 percent of people leaving probation ultimately end up incarcerated, and nearly 15 percent of people in jail and prison have previously been on probation. While all of our online events are freely available, we ask that those who are able make a solidarity donation in support of our continuing to do this work. WALLACE SHAWN: So, the following program is brought to you by Haymarket Books. You see this all the time if you're part of any neighborhood Facebook page, I think, and even in my neighborhood that's supposedly, like, one of the most progressive and diverse, people are always saying, "Oh, was that a firework or a gunshot? 4: LatiNext, Microbes & Macroeconomics: Understanding the Pandemic and the Global Slump with David McNally and Hadas Thier, A Working-Class Vision for the Future: May Day with Stacy Davis Gates, Sara Nelson, and Sarah Jaffe, MAYDAY MAYDAY: A Homemade Poetry Reading hosted by Aja Monet, Intersectionality Matters: Kimberlé Crenshaw with Janine Jackson, Ali to Lebron: The Long Walk Towards Freedom with Scoop Jackson and Dave Zirin, The Left was Right: Radical Politics and Labor Militancy 1945-2020 with John Nichols and Toni Gilpin, What a School Means: Eve L. Ewing with Jen Johnson, Free Palestine: A Homemade Poetry Reading hosted by Aja Monet, A Global Green New Deal: Into the Portal, Leave No One Behind with Arundhati Roy and Naomi Klein, Abolish ICE is Not Just a Slogan: Immigrant Justice in the Age of Coronavirus with John Washington and Justin Akers Chacón, The BreakBeat Poets Live!

Vikki, throwing to you to talk a little bit about sex worker rescue programs? Now more than ever, the need to do just that is at the forefront of our minds.

So this is one very prominent realm of soft policing, the so-called child welfare system, family regulation system, more accurately. /

And after uprisings took off in Chicago, early last month, the city allocated over a million dollars to hire private security guards to patrol the South and West Sides, saying that they were preventing looting. So I'm going to ask you to be short in covering what you're covering around these (ph) so that we can get them in. You know, do you call -- you know, like do you call a neighborhood watch and have them publicly shamed? Those things existing will have a massive impact on these oppressive and death-making systems, right? But the woman in the Midwest that I told you about, the mother who climbed through her best friend's bathroom window to get her medication, had to pay $115 per week. We're also seeing that they are arresting students, often for minor -- or minor actions that should not be arrested, and I phrased that awkwardly, but so let me rephrase. But you actually can't coerce someone into recovery, it's not even a thing that works.

MAYA SCHENWAR:  Great, thank you, Mariame. And during that time, as it was expanding, it came to focus more and more on Black and Native families. Obviously not, you know? If your stream gets choppy, it might help to reduce the image quality. So people see mandated drug treatment, which often comes by way of drug courts, as wholly different than police and prisons. Yeah. We see states like Alaska right now, where the majority of foster children are Native, even though just 18 percent of children in the state are native. So I think, you know -- I think the point that you make in the book about this really will make people start to think differently. And what that ends up doing is, it forecloses, right away, possibilities of doing nothing.

So look on Haymarket's page, look on social media and you'll find more about all those upcoming livestreams. So that's where I'm coming from right now. But we never feel safe, we're always just worried about the security angle of things.

So I came to this book -- well, first of all, my name is Vikki.

We saw this recently in New York City -- or not -- or last year in New York City, there was a woman named Layleen Polanco.

So they were, you know, actually seeking out people to do their work and inciting people in this way that pushed back against uprisings, that pushed back against resistance. You know, you only get to go to these courts if the police have arrested you for sex work. As we stand on the precipice of so much potential change, there’s an understandable impulse to reach for “replacements” -- institutions to fill in for police and prisons. And so much of how we deal with things is, like, the -- calling the cops, you know, as your last resort or even your first resort, in some cases.

So very excited to throw over to Maya. It points us towards a way out of criminalization. You'll notice that I'm Mariame Kaba because I'm not actually appearing on-screen. We hear a lot about community when we talk about these so-called alternatives. In New York, amid the uprisings, some communities hired private security firms as well. And people may be seeing an image on the screen from a short kind of Instagram story set of comics that we made at Project MIA about that concept of soft policing -- thanks to Brendan (ph) McClade (ph) for a lot of ideas that came to bear for that. (inaudible) feed is interrupted for any reason, you may need to navigate back to the YouTube Haymarket Books page. And I want to recommend taking a look at the National Coalition for Child Protection Reform for some of this research. Drug courts are in Joe Biden's platform for the presidency, for example.

I co-founded that, actually, while I was on probation, come to think of it. We can because somebody created these things. Haymarket Books is determined to offer a political response to the crisis, believing that our mission to support struggles for social and economic justice is more vital than ever. We have talked to people who are able to walk their dog on the sidewalk right outside their house, but are unable to cross the street so -- because that would be a violation of the amount of space that they are allowed to leave. At the same time, people are also involuntarily committed to state psychiatric hospitals and civil commitment centers. And these programs traumatized her further, tried to force her into abstinence, which ultimately made her more likely to overdose, and she did.

So I'm going to say a few words about privatized policing and then neighborhood watch, as you mentioned. And I was hoping that when this book came out, she would be able to do some talks with us in Chicago. There are approximately 200,000 people on electronic monitoring. You can register for these upcoming events on Eventbrite.

Instead of doing that.

As these systems grow, we're now seeing 37 percent of children in the U.S. experiencing a Child Protective Services investigation by the time they're 18.

I'm the founder and director of Project NIA, and I'm moderating today's conversation, titled, "Abolish Policing, Not Just the Police.". Or, you know, go to some sort of, you know, meeting with the other person that you just got into a fight with.

Like, I mean, the list goes on and on, about what we're really living with on a day-to-day basis. If someone actually has a serious dependency on a drug and you force them to abstain, when they're released from treatment or kicked out of treatment, their tolerance to the drug is down and they're more vulnerable to overdose. But maybe going to see their child's basketball game or school play would not be allowed. But anyway. So, instead of supporting children and families in finding safety and well-being (inaudible) them, traumatizing them and inflicting the violence of separation. So you math people, $460 per month. In Chicago, during the coronavirus pandemic, we see that Chicago now has the largest pretrial population under electronic monitoring. With so many people joining this call, we may need your patience if we have technical issues. So they had one adult in the family working, and they scrimped and they saved and they did everything they could, right? So, again, is this something that is a giant threat to public safety? In a recent talk that Angela Davis did, she said, "We're trapped on a treadmill of reform." And then we're going to take some time to answer questions as we have time to do. And that's a false and dangerous and sometimes deadly set of options. So let's get on with it. I want to let everyone know about three upcoming events in this livestream series. Do you immediately call the police and get them hauled off? It goes back to the origins of U.S. policing. And as part of building, what can you do to support each other without having to pick up the phone and call 911 every time? And instead of just separating people and saying, like, "You go here, you go here, calm down," people end up in handcuffs and then being brought to a precinct and then being charged. It would be -- say you wanted to go grocery shopping, you would have to say what stores you were going to go to, and at what time you were going to go to them. So more resources, more ways for you to be engaging. And if she violated their strict conditions, then she got sent back to prison, so she kept being sent back. Like, let's start by being accountable for the small things that -- you know, like in asking -- and getting into the practice of being accountable and practicing community. Note: There was a technical issue with the live captioning for this event when it aired live on Thursday; we apologize to all those who were not able to participate in the live discussion. So, I mean, if you think about the people in your family -- whether it's your biological family or your chosen family -- like, what do you do when they hurt you? And these companies also often employ cops and prison guards after they've been fired for doing something violent.

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